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Thread: Liquor Monitor System

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    las vegas
    Posts
    2

    Liquor Monitor System

    Hello Everybody,

    I just recently returned from the Nightclub/Bar show in Las Vegas because I've been looking for a way to keep track of my liquor sales. There were about 10 companies exhibiting different kinds of liquor systems such as pour guns, scales, scanning systems but there were two companies who were selling wireless pour spouts that looked interesting. One of the companies was Capton and the other was BarVision. Has anybody seen or used these systems before? What are the benefits of using these types of systems? The people at Capton said they have about 40 installs and the people at BarVision said they are close to releasing their product. The pricing was about the same so I'm looking for some input or help.

    The websites are www.captoninc.com and www.barvision.com

    Thanks for your help!

    EJ

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland OR
    Posts
    36
    What would keep a bartender from just pulling the spout off and pouring directly from the bottle - if they wanted to rip you off badly enough, they'll probably figure that out pretty quickly. I'm a bit leary about the "don't need to manually inventory" claim made by BarVision - you'd be taking a lot for granted if you didn't do a manual check and leave yourself just as open to theft and overpours as before.

    I don't think there's anything that can beat a good POS system (providing you can afford one, I've always liked both Micros and Aloha which provide great inventory tools) and someone who knows how to use the reports and take an accurate weekly manual inventory. Add that to a well TRAINED team, and you shouldn't have any problems.

    Cheers!

    Josh @ BarSim
    www.barsim.com
    www.allaboutbartending.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    9

    Exclamation Beta Testing

    I spent a few minutes speaking to Adam Studnicki; CEO of Barvision. They are in beta testing (and have been for 2 years). They do not have any customers using the system. Do you want to be the first?

    check out www.lindberg-jensen.com instead.

    Richard

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    las vegas
    Posts
    2
    Thanks for the info. When I spoke to the people at Capton they said they have about 40 installs and they have a couple of testimonials on their web site. I'm looking for something that's easy for my bartenders to use and both Capton and BarVision seem to be on the right track.

    EJ

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    22
    I would proceed very carefully with either of these companies, as you have been correctly told, one has no customers and has indicated for the last three years that release was only a few months away, same story every year, the other I beleive operated under a different name a year or so ago and went under, wiped thier obligations clean and reopened under a different name. Red flags should go up on both.

    I would lean towards one of the established companies that have local sales and service in your area.
    I am in the business and can tell you that none of the companies out there will eliminate your need for doing inventory, regardless of what you are told, although some can dramatic positive effect on your pour costs.

    Ask for local sales and service contact info from any of the companies you contact, (as most do not have) and local references that you can visit (again, something that most don't have). This should narrow it down for you.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    945

    Exclamation Do you really need a liquor control system?

    I would install a gun/pourer type system on only a very large, high volume venue where it is more difficult to control revenues and potential losss can be huge. Service there is less personable than a smaller place and the systems are more acceptable. The cost and maintenance of these systems is not cheap, so one should do a cost-benefit study and estimate the expense recovery time of such a system. In my opinion, the smaller the place, the more personable the service and generally higher tip percentage.Customers there, tend to object more to just the sight of the gun and pour ( even if the pour amounts are set high).

    All places should have a good computer pos/register system for tighter controls and invaluable information for analysis. A good system like Aloha and HSI can be pricey but worth it.You could also build your own system for far less like I have done with touchscreens, printers, and drawers off Ebay and a good and far less expensive alternative software called Nextpos (nextpos.com).Be sure to look at your entire inventory and cash control system for weaknesses and potential losses.

    You should first try managing the place, by training your workers properly and weeding out the ones who don't support your business. As I always say if you worked at the Gap, would you give away xtra jeans? And, if you worked at a gas station, would it be ok to give away xtra gallons of gas? Then, why is it ok to let excessive alcohol or food to be given away and not controled in a bar or rest.? Get control.Show your workers your liquor costs and educate them.Reward them for each week's reduction.Even a small profit sharing system can do wonders for reduced costs and low employee turnover. After all, they may be giving up money to make you more money.And many workers don't equate things like heavy pours or comp drinks as theft when it is. It would be different if it was there place and their money, but it's not and they don't care. Get them to care by showing them that they are hurting you, the business that supports them, and themselves!.Seperate mgmt. comps, spills etc. and even consider a seperate bank of liquor just for non-sales or reduced sales if you can. Surprisingly, many bartenders have never been trained to pour a drink properly that gives an accurate shot that mgmt. deems appropriate as well as great visual appeal.Educate them on controlled free pouring, different liquor consistencies,bottle weights,what a shot really is,etc..Offer a $100 challenge at a meeting to make your points, because most bartenders think they are Gods and know everything when most understand very little.Make them understand that your pricing is dependent on an expected pour amount.Make them understand draft beer waste if not poured correctly.We, as managers need to educate and manage our co-workers about the business much better.

    If a monthly, detailed inventory check may not be enough; you may have to go weekly.Don't have the time or resources to do it accurately?Make time,if not, consider hiring an outside bottle weighing/inventory service like Bevinco.I guarantee that you will be running a better establishment and will see more money for your efforts.If you're not willing to do this, get out of the business, because this is the most basic of management duties - managing your product and workers delivering that product.

    Just my 2 cents!

    Michael Black

    PS:Hi Joe!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    5

    Fixing A Misunderstanding About Capton

    After the Las Vegas show, I took a look at this series of comments and, as CEO of Capton would like to clarify a point made by Dollar99 which puts Capton in a poor light.

    First some background: For the past 25 years, I have been a Silicon Valley venture capitalist focusing on early stage technology startups. Quite a few years ago I served on the board of a small, Southern California hotel/restaurant management company. And way, way before that, after returning from overseas and before graduate school, I was a busboy, then a waiter, then a bartender, and then for five years the owner/operator of a bar/restaurant in Georgetown, D.C.

    About 18 months ago, a friend asked me if I would like to visit a defunct dotcom here in San Francisco that was trying to sell its assets. The company, VitalLink Business Systems was founded during the dotcom bubble to provide POS and video-security systems via the internet to restaurants, hotels, fast food outlets, etc. Later, after experiencing difficulties reaching sufficient levels of revenue, the company looked to acquire additional products--one of which was the Beverage Tracker, the rights to which they acquired. Unfortunately, by rushing the new product to market, they installed many systems that failed, causing VitalLink to spend a very large amount of money to fix the problem--something they did very well, producing a new version that works, is reliable, and affordable

    Unfortunately, like most dotcoms, the business model was seriously flawed and the company burned through a significant amount of funds, and by the time the Beverage Tracker was re-introduced to the marketplace, the company was in serious trouble and the investors had said "enough". By the time I visited, the company had shrunk from about 160 people to 3, their bank and another creditor had foreclosed on the assets, and the creditor had told the 3 remaining employees to sell whatever they could and then turn off the lights.

    At my first visit, I did not find the POS system of interest [Aloha, Micros, InfoGensis, Positouch, etc do that very well] nor did I find the security system interesting [too many good people doing that too]. However, I resonated with the spout system--I figure that if I had had the Beverage Tracker in place when I was in the bar/restaurant business, I would not have had to take out all those student loans.

    In the next 9 months after my visit, I performed an enormous amount of due diligence on the product and the market. What I found was (1) the problem of shrinkage remains serious, (2) no one had solved the problem effectively, (3) the Beverage Tracker system had the characteristics necessary to be acceptable in the marketplace [easy to use, does not interfere with the way a bartender goes about the job of bartending, is afordable], and (4) the Beverage Tracker system works now.

    After extensive negotiations and effort expended in settling a lawsuit between the inventor and VitalLink, I formed Capton, provided some funding, and acquired the Beverage Tracker technology.

    Neither I nor Capton have any connection to VitalLink Business Systems. Capton has hired one of the former VitalLink employees.

    Capton is a private company that has been funded to date by a group of individuals and my fund. The investors include managers of properties for large chains, casino executives, the CEO of a hotel chain, a founding investor and current director of a large US restaurant chain, a couple restaurant/hotel consultants, several experienced investors in software, and several experienced venture investors.

    We have just begun our marketing program--the Las Vegas show was our first as an exhibitor. We are putting in place a reseller network of organizations that meet certain criteria as to abilty to offer technical support, experience with POS systems, size, and number of technical support personnel.

    I know that not every establishment needs Capton's Beverage Tracker....however, even for small venues, the ability to monitor liquor dispensing can provide an important and valuable return. And for larger establishments, the payback can be quite attractive.

    Basically, we believe that "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it."


    I hope everyone will judge Capton's Beverage Tracker on its own merits...and if you would like to chat about it, please email me at lruby@qvcentral.com or lruby@captoninc.com .

    Lucien Ruby

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    5

    Josh's Concern About Bartenders Bypassing Wireless Spouts

    Again, I'm the CEO of Capton, Inc. and would like to respond to Josh's concern that a bartender could remove Capton's Beverage Tracker spout and pour a drink--thereby not having it recorded.

    The Capton Beverage Tracker spout has a tamper switch that records each removal of each spout. Since the system knows how much liquor remains in the bottle at the time of removal, the manager can tell if it is an empty bottle swap [say with an ounce or less remaining] or one that needs to be looked into [say with ten ounces remaining].

    Additionally, by comparing the pouring events recorded by our Beverage Tracker with the POS pour data, the manager gets a handle on the number of freebies actually given out over any time period.

    If anyone would like to chat with me about Capton, please give me a call at 415-782-1414 x 2 or via email at lruby@qvcentral.com or lruby@captoninc.com


    Lucien Ruby

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    945

    Newer pourer head system maybe a good thing?

    I just want to clarify that I was refering to the older gun pos systems and the magnetic corded heads that go over the bottle tops.These new systems like Capton (Neither do I endorse nor discredit) appear to be less noticeable and probably more acceptable in a smaller venue.I am looking over their website and info, but wonder if there are any current Capton users that you could ask to join this discussion. We are interested in rough start-up costs, maintenence costs, support,reliability, accuracy, ease of use, and bartender and customer response among other things. Given the history, there may be a chicken or egg problem in gaining market respect.That is, some may want to use what may be a better system, but like many other great products that have fizzled, there may be a lack of financial and marketing support to gain dominance. I, for one, would fear that if the company and product did not make it, I would no longer be able to get support, parts, maintenance, etc..

    I do like the tamper switch feature.Thanks in advance for your response.

    Michael Black

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    22
    Lucien Ruby

    Thanks for the detailed explanation. My point was to share my opinion on the two companies that tunnel_bar asked about. While both companies he asked about may or may not have a good product, both are relatively new and unproven at this point, and that should be a concern from a potential buyers perspective.
    When you talk about the forty installs on your website, I believe that includes installs that took place over the past few years while operating under the the other names. You have pointed out yourself, the company has changed hands and names a few times in recent years, with very little market penetration.
    My point was to simply advise tunnel_bar to look at some of the Companies in the market that have been there for many years and have tens of thousands of installs with a proven track record reliability along with local sales and service.
    The industry has seen its share of companies open with a new product with the intention of taking the market over and have watched them simply fade away in a couple of years. This leaves those who bought in, in a tough spot, a system that no longer maintainable and eventually needs to be removed.

    Good luck on the new venture....

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    5

    Thanks Dollar99

    Dear Dollar99,

    You are absolutely correct in pointing out the newness of the two providers of wireless spout systems. My specific concern had to do with being painted as some folks who had changed stripes in order to wipe out debts and were hiding under a new name....doesn't put us in a good light and as I explained, isn't accurate--but, as you point out, although the product is market proven, Capton itself is indeed new.

    We are different folks, focusing entirely on the problem of shrinkage at the bar, and have the financil backing to maintain a solid base. We are not connected to the prior vendor in any way.

    You are also correct in saying that our installed base includes folks who bought the Beverage Tracker system from the former owner of the technology--but, since those operators are using the exact same version of the system we are offering now, we feel it reasonable to include them in the count of installed base.

    It was our good fortune that the former company paid a lot of money to fix problems, test, and completely debug the system before we acquired the technology from the creditor. My grandfather always said it is better to be lucky than smart--and this was indeed very lucky for Capton.

    I also believe your advice to look at the offerings from current providers of liquor measuring systems before making a decision is very sound--and a good thing for Capton. If operators do look at older offerings, I am confident that the product characteristics of these existing offerings will pale beside those offered by a wireless, free-pour spout system such as Capton's Beverage Tracker.

    Unlike the long-time providers of liquor measuring systems, Capton's Beverage Tracker fits what we think are the needs of the customers [ease of use, simiple to install, does not interfere with normal course of operations, transparant to the customer, affordable with an attractive ROI].

    And, thanks for the wish of luck for Capton....I appreciate it.

    Lucien Ruby
    CEO
    Capton, Inc.
    www.captoninc.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    oc,california
    Posts
    1

    Liquor monitoring system

    If you are looking for the best free pour wireless liquor monitoring system then check out www.liquormonitor.com stanalone or interfaced to a pos system.
    contact victor at 714-227-6630

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 1998
    Location
    West
    Posts
    1,140
    I'm from the old school.

    How many free-pour bars actually test their Bartenders monthly? Probably only a very small percentage.

    It's a fact that most Bartenders will over pour in the early hours of the night and short pour when they get busy.

    I've used a lot of mechanical systems over the years and all of them have been a pain in the ass. They always seem to break or malfunction when you are crazy ass busy. And you can't get a tech at that hour of the night to fix it.

    Just my opinion.

    One system that I did like but didn't get mentioned was AZbar.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    368
    Low tech: I have my bartenders use a jigger. With a little slight of hand, they can make it look like a little extra went in (we use 1.5oz per drink). Standard for our area. I prefer 1 - 1.25oz in my own drink, so If I'm on the customer side of the bar, they know to flip the jigger over and use the little side.

    We have spotters to keep an eye on the bartenders randomly. I also have a camera directed at the liquor well/drink prep area for random checks by myself or my wife (the real day to day manager ).
    Speaking without thinking is like shooting without taking aim

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    368
    Quote Originally Posted by David
    I'm from the old school.

    ....I've used a lot of mechanical systems over the years and all of them have been a pain in the ass. They always seem to break or malfunction when you are crazy ass busy. And you can't get a tech at that hour of the night to fix it.

    .....
    As a customer, I always felt cheated slightly by the in line measured pours. If the bar used the "posi-pour" spouts and a creative bar tender, then I didn't know the difference. A good bartender can make those look like free pour.

    Anything like the collar device just seems too much for a mom and pop bar with 1 bartender most night. We still do the finger count method on the bottles and match that up with the sales report to see if free booze is going out the door. Call it luck, but so far so good. Benvinco keeps trying to get in to do our bar, but we are just to darn small, and well, the finger count method works. I suppose I probably should buy a hydrometer to see if the vodka is getting watered down, but right now we are practically all family.
    Speaking without thinking is like shooting without taking aim

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1

    Thumbs down DO NOT BUY Barvision! It's a waste of money

    OK, I'll admit that I took the early steps in 2007 to try Barvision at a cost of $10K. And for that investment, I've spent countless hours trying to get any kind of return but have NOTHING to show for my efforts or money!

    First, this is a highly complex system that breaks down, malfunctions, and/or requires massive on going maintenance. I don't know about you, but I don't have the time to babysit anything - especially a "control" system.

    Having said that, it does measure pours fairly accurately (after individually testing and tweaking computer parameters on each and every pour spout) so long as it is a rapid pour. If you need to use a shot glass for any reason or products like Bomb Shots to measuer Jager, etc., then the system measurement is off and the system reports "slow pour." After a single 750 ml bottle of Jager, I would report 160% usage.

    Some of the major issues I've had include the fact that I originally bought 120 pour spouts (@ $50 each) with the RFID tags under the understanding that there is a 1-year mfg warranty and the I could expect three years of (battery) life from each before replacing the entire tag. That's right, the battery is built-in and cannot be recharged. Well, in the first year, I replaced 47 tags under warranty due to tilt sensor malfunctions(it has two in each tag to measure the 90 and 135 degrees required for a pour) and plain old dead tags (no power).

    Once I got past the 1 year warranty, I now have an additional 29 tags with the same tilt sensor problems and no power and the Barvision company REFUSES to replace them because they are outside their warranty! No matter we're not even getting 18 months of life from them when one would expect 36 months.

    Count'em folks 76 out of 120 tags have either malfunctioned or died. That means that throughout the year (and then some) that I have had Barvision, I didn't have correct pour data from 76 of my liquors! And when a tilt sensor goes out - well there isn't any automatic diagnostic that reports the failure to the computer so we're alerted. Instead, you have to manually tilt each sensor at 90 and 135 degrees and visually confirm that each tag's led's flash - once at 90 and once at 135 degrees position. A total circle-jerk!

    Another issue I have is the "on bottle" sensor. It's a mechanical contact switch that easily becomes gummed up with liquor after just a couple of days. That means you have to remove the pour spout from the bottle to clean (or, if your not watching, a gummed up switch could move from bottle to bottle without reporting that it is "off bottle" and showing ridiculous bottle yields like 700% for example).

    Obviously, you lose all control over whether a bottle spout was removed for maintenance or for illicit purposes. Of course, this also invalidates the yield calculation from a bottle because the yield is measured from spout removal to spout removal. (The old PALM software had a function where you could input the liquor level ala Accubar after replacing a spout but the Windows version doesn't have that function. And for good reason, unless a manager is there to enter that info - which a small sports bar like ours doesn't have on each shift - you don't know what the real level is after reattaching the spout.)

    Another reason I bought Barvision is to augment my "weighing" controls by having Barvision timestamp each liquor's pours, and, if necessary to watch the video to ID the person not working within the rules. What we found out is that the tags don't have a clock - only the computer. So when the computer locks up (frequently) or other situations occur and we have the pour "events" re-queried, they populate the computer based on the PESENT TIME back. Not very useful.

    So take my advice and DO NOT BUY Barvision! It is a waste of money.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    8

    Liquor Monitor System

    I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. Based on what you've told me the product that was sold to you was likely sold as the wrong type of sollution.

    Let me begin by first mentioning that I am a reseller in Canada for Capton, and I am not trying to sell anybody anything here, but rather provide some feedback as to why this system failed for you and how we have been using it successfully.

    First off, the Capton system is very different from the Bar Vision system in both the hardware and the software. Our liquor spouts are fully enclosed, and thus require no assembly. The reason Bar Vision sends you the spouts in pieces is due to our patented technology.

    Second, this technology should NEVER be used as an inventory system. Anyone who claims this is simply wrong. As our software and spouts measure based upon the type of liquor poured and the length of pour it is most certainly possible to have the type of readings that you were getting. With the Capton system you will always get a pour amount in your data, which is in real time. The time of the pour is registered in the spout and transmitted to the software.

    Third, the disadvantage of the Bar Vision system is the daisy chained receivers that you are required to hook up all around your bar. The Capton sollution uses an antenna attached to an RG6 Coax cable. If one of the Bar Vision receivers fail, the entire chain fails. Using the coax cable, we do not have that problem.

    Now, I will explain how we deploy this system to acheive the results our customers are looking for. Perhaps you can use the Bar Vision system you've purchased to administer something similar.

    1. We train all the management AND the bartenders on how the spouts work and how they need to be managed after the implimentation. All spouts are labled so they are not swiched between bottles. Management is trained to watch for this. Bartenders are trained on how to pour properly with the spouts in order to get the accurate readings. During training they must pour 10 times in a row in the bars target pour range ie 1oz, 2oz(in front of their peers as well) to be certified. Each bartender knows that if they trickle pour or do not pour using the proper angle theirs pours will look heavy in the reporting.

    2. Once the sollution is installed and running, bartenders are evaluated based upon how well they pour within the target range. ex. 75% or 80% of pours within the target range. They are also evaluated as a group. These make for great staff meetings!

    3. The other way we teach managment to use the system is simply running your pour reports at the end of each night. Very easily you can spot pours that are out of range. Take the report, show the bartender and ask them to explain. The fact that you are using the system, and they know how it works, they will begin to pour accurately. This alone will drastically elliminate bartender theft, over and underpouring and liquor substitutes which is how our customers easily recover the cost of their system in months.

    4. Our sollution also integrates with most of the popular POS systems on the market, allowing you to see how well the bartenders followed the recipies for your drinks and whether they poured the drink that was punched into the POS and whether or not each pour had a POS transaction attached to it.

    The whole point of our method is to maximize the effectiveness and power that the reporting can give you while ellimination the need for your managers to spend useless hours pouring over the mountains of data available to them. Let the owners and accountants sit in their offices pouring over that stuff. Keep your managers on the floor and watching your liquor.

    I'm giving you this information so that you can hopefully start using your system to make some money off of it. The idea is sound and it works. If you are using it as an inventory system though, you will be dissapointed.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    11

    Barvision Or Capton?

    I just recently was told about the wireless liquor monitor. As I was looking for a way to keep track of my liquor sales in my bar. I searched in the Internet and i found out about 2 companies who are selling wireless pour spouts that looked interesting. One of the companies was Capton and the other was BarVision. Is anybody used these systems before on the past 2 years? What kind of problems can happen while using these types of systems? On Capton Web site its looks like they are having customers though i couldn't see nightclubs among them. On BarVision its look like they didn't move forward for long time there are no new announcements like in Capton.I will like to know if anybody know what their current situation or any information that can help
    Thanks>>

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    2
    Here is one more company selling similar products http://www.swedishbarsystems.com/

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    8

    Beverage Tracker in Canada

    The company selling Beverage Tracker in Canada is Factor One Technology in Calgary.

    www.factor1.com

    They have a bunch of info there and will send you more if you are interested.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    11
    Thanks!
    maybe do you know also who deals with Barvision in Canada

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    8

    Bar Vision

    I don't think they have a re-seller in Canada that I know of. You'd have to check their website for some more info. You could also buy direct from the states probably.

    Make sure they can provide you training and that they have a system. Keep in mind though, both systems are for monitoring bar tender pours. If either of them tell you its good for inventory they are full of it!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    11
    Thanks for your Help
    all the best

    SuperBoy

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sacramento Valley (CA)
    Posts
    498
    Bumping this discussion back up.......

    Following OxRock's example, I recently changed policy so that all our bartenders now use a jigger or shot glass to measure pours. We use 1-1/4 oz as a standard. In preparation I made sure all our shot glasses were that size. Although cost control was my biggest motivator, I told my employees that the primary driver was consistency for our customers. FYI, there was an immediate improvement in margin once the team started measuring pours. Some customers were put off by the procedure, but when we justified it by telling them it was for improving consistency most were okay. They understood that since everyone has had an experience where a drink from one bartender tastes significantly different from one made by another bartender.

    Another peave of mine is glassware choices. That will be my next target. I want the same glass used for a drink regardless of who prepares it (unless a customer specifically requests different). I am putting together a recipe book just for our bar. It will call out OUR glassware and presentation for most of the drinks we make......even something as basic as a rum & coke. My bartenders will ultimately be evaluated on how well they follow our in-house recipes.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    8
    there is a pos with the system built in i'll find the name, in canada....

    however all these pourer tracking devices scare away who?

    Drinkers

    they hate them and most places ive seen use them fail in the long run

    period

    even the best places...

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